Welcome to Monday Morning Men

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Welcome back to the Monday Morning Men podcast. My name is Josh Swart. I'm here with Thomas Dellinger. Here to bring you a wonderful word on this Monday morning. Um our goal with this podcast is to bridge the gap between your Sunday morning service and your Monday morning real life. We're two dudes just like you. We've got families, we've got jobs. Um, but we love the Lord, we love his word, and we want to make it uh make it practically appliable to your everyday life. So these are a lot of topics, things that we go through. Uh Thomas has a lot more issues than I do. So he this is why he's the it really is true. That hurts. Invalid. Invalid. Um, but if you got questions, if you got feedback, you want to reach out to us, email us at info at mondaymorningmen.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

And with that, Thomas, what are we talking about this morning? Well, today, usually when when I like even like write it or whatever, it's always like a one-word topic. Like we've talked about patience, gentleness, fasting, prayer, like one word

The “Terrifying” Passage in Scripture

SPEAKER_00 1:30

subjects. Um, and I probably could have done that with this. This is obviously a little bit more unique, but I kind of even, if you want to call it a title on it, uh, you know, this is what a lot of people tongue in cheek call as like the most terrifying passage in scripture. A lot of pastors will reference that. It's not necessarily true, but it's what, you know, kind of, and we'll get in and we'll see why in a second. But I thought it was really important we talk talk about it now. We're almost we've got to be close, at least the halfway point. Our goal was to record one episode for one year per week. So that's 52 episodes. So we've got to be getting close to that. So there's a lot of doing in our podcast because we're chasing faithfulness and obedience, specifically being practical throughout the week of something we can apply, um, which is good and and beautiful. And that's one of the goals that we're trying to do here. But in that, there can kind of be some of these pitfalls and ditches that we can fall into. And so I I thought it would be wise to address some stuff that I struggle with in those ditches and in this passage specifically that can kind of maybe help realign our hearts and thoughts. And there's still some practical application and things that we can do, but I wanted at least discuss it. So today we're gonna be in Matthew chapter seven, um, verses 21 through 23. We we do a lot, and obviously kind of the Sermon on the Mount, you know, Matthew 5, 6, and 7. But uh this verse here is

“Lord, Lord…” — Matthew 7:21–23

SPEAKER_00 2:56

one that gets quoted often, um, but it is one that really can, you know, it it spurns a lot of thoughts, not only in me, but I know in a lot of people. And so kind of wanted to discuss this and then get into some application. So here we go. This is Matthew 7, 21 through 23. Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven, many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. There are some translations, I think it's the NIV, that says, evildoers. And this is kind of one of those verses that a few thoughts immediately hit you. We kind of, I I think most Christians basically understand this in the concept, right? That that, you know, we immediately think about maybe that prosperity gospel, or we think about uh prophetic movements or something like that. And we're like, oh, we can see why they do that. And then there is that that is a right interpretation on some of this, but there's more I want to get into that really specifically for us, but it should kind of cause you pause because I don't know about you, but I have not cast out a demon. I've never prayed for anybody and their arm grew back, right? And I think in theory, I know that that is not evidence of walking with Christ or this amazing miracle. God is gracious and does miracles

What If I’m a False Convert?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

with anybody and everything. Um, that's what makes him God. But that being said, it's like there is an evaluation. It's like, well, I just wake up and I'm a dad and I, you know, I'm faithful, but I'm like, am I truly walking with Christ? And that fear of am I a false convert? Or there's even this part, at least I don't know if you think about this, but it's like, I will live my life faithfully obeying. And then it's what if I get to heaven? It's like, oh, I missed it. It's like all of a sudden, I mean, these guys, I mean, the the the realization, at least for these men or people that are there, it's like they thought they were going to heaven. It seems that way. It's like, well, I don't want to do, you know, I don't want to live my life, and then, oh my goodness, I missed it. Um, I mean, what are your initial thoughts? Like when you hear something like that, is there's like this immediate, like, yeah, there's a there's there should be a fear. This is why it can be terrifying. It's like, here I am trying to love Christ, and what if I miss it?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yeah, like so often the the gifts or the the things that are on the the display the most, the the miracle workers, the prophets, the people like that, you tend to view that as fruit of their giftings with the Lord or their anointing or whatever it is. Um I I I remember I mean I grew up in a world where that was very much elevated. Uh and I I did not experience any of that for myself. Like I was like, I'm not the guy who's shaking and baking and all that stuff. So I over I always felt like there was something wrong with me because why isn't this on display in my life? You know, looking back on that now, I think there was a lot of that stuff that was human contrivant and not necessarily authentic. And so contextually with this this verse, I think I think we can look at the stuff that's on display publicly and view that as the anointing. But this right here is saying not everybody who prophesies in my name or drives out demons or does all these things will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

That's that's that's what I'm yeah, no, no, it's good and and and here's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

And this is kind of it's uh oh, let me say this it's reassuring for me, yes, in one sense, but it's also uh it's convicting for me also because it's not just based off of my spiritual works.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

There you go.

The Comfort Hidden in a Terrifying Passage

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yeah, when that and that's that's where we want to go with this. It is this sh terrifying passage should actually bring one of the most comforting parts of scripture to us. And here's why it's a super simple response. If you stand before Christ and He looks at you and goes, I don't know you, and your initial response is to tell him what you did, you fundamentally don't understand the gospel. It has never been about anything that you do, it's only been because of the Son and the blood of Jesus Christ. Yeah. And we have to understand that you do not understand the gospel if that is your first response. I do not go to my son and say, What makes you my son? And he goes, Well, I I did the dishes today, and you know, I did all my chores. Like that would be an insane response. And we know that. And yet, these people, their initial wasn't, it's not even just the fact that it was miracles. It could be anything that you've done. Well, I fed the poor. Now it does say we do the will of the Father because we want to love him. That we'll get into that in a second, but there is nothing that you do that qualifies you to stand before the king. And if that is your first response or that is the way that your mind works, and this is the reason we want to address this in a podcast where we encourage you to be doing and to walking in obedience. Understand fundamentally, it is not what saves you. It will not help you. And the day of judgment, whatever you've done, it's not because of that, it's because of Jesus. And I always kind of like in scripture, and it's gonna get this is a Monday morning, and I apologize because it will get a little bit more graphic, but this is the way that God has presented this analogy in scripture when it we come to understanding our works and understanding how the gospel works in our lives. But even Adam, right? We I I know you, but even in scripture, when it

Knowing Jesus vs. Knowing About Jesus

SPEAKER_00 8:38

talks about intimacy, you know, specifically sexual intimacy between a husband and wife, that Adam knew his wife. There's this idea, there's this conception of how do we know? Because there's something to even, they said, Lord, Lord. They're doing it in his name. They knew him by name. There was a comfortability when they got to heaven that they kind of knew him. They knew him, but they didn't know him. There's an intimacy that's lacking there that is fundamental in the gospel that we need to understand. Martin Luther said this the only thing you can contribute to your salvation is your sin. And that's something you got to remember right now. There's nothing that you're doing, no good works, no amount of serving, no amount of tithing, no amount of whatever that's ever helping you in those moments. The only thing you can contribute is your sin. It's a beautiful passage. And we know that in Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, for it is by grace that you've been saved through faith. And it's not from yourselves, it's the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. They're boasting in that moment. I've done all of this. And he's like, it's the blood of my son in which you're covered. They don't fundamentally understand the gospel. You can also read uh Philippians 3. If you kind of read that entire passage, it breaks it down as well in a really uh beautiful way, specifically verses four through nine. But in that, I want to give you guys, and again, I apologize, a little

When Good Works Become “Filthy Rags”

SPEAKER_00 9:52

bit more of a graphic analogy that it is scripture. So I guess I don't want to apologize too too much about it, but it is, it will help us kind of understand and paint this picture when we get into some of our practical application. But Isaiah 64, six, and this is why we need to understand all of our good works apart from Christ is just a waste of our time. And it's and and why our like, I guess if you want to call it legalism or our self-righteousness becomes an issue, God paints the picture why. And this is Isaiah 64, 6. We have all become like one who is unclean, and all of our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities like the wind take us away. So Isaiah specifically then, this unclean, and this is just where you need to understand, it's the same unclean that Rachel expressed to her father Laban when she went and get up. She's I'm clean. It is that menstruation period for a woman, right? So here, and again, I'm not here to give you a biology lesson, but when a woman does not have a life that is given to her, death is passed through her. This is why, you know, once a month women do this. And if you don't already know that and you're married, man, God help you in your marriage. But this is what Isaiah is is picturing is that our rags, our filthy rags, those, those leftovers from that, that menstruation period for a woman is only death unless something beautiful happens in that moment. All your good works are actually death. All of your good works are filthy rags, it says unto God, unless one thing. And it's found in 1 John 3 9. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he is born of God. That word seed is sperm. The way that it works for our salvation and why we do and we're walking in obedience now as Christians is that when we have God who has saved us and his righteousness, his life that is inside of us. Just like with a if a woman has received, you know, the seed from a man, life is then formed. It produces something beautiful. It either is going to produce death without the act of God being involved, or it's going to produce life. So when our salvation comes in, we realize we have done nothing. It is by the blood of God that we are covered and that we get to stand before him. However, if we we embrace that with our good works, then some life is given to us. So we know we can't earn our salvation. We understand that fundamentally. And I know that that's something personally that I understand

The Scoreboard We Keep With God

SPEAKER_00 12:31

conceptually, but here there's something that happens, and this is why I want to address it. We know that our good works are like filthy rags apart from God. However, there's this tallying system that seems to take place in my mind sometimes. I don't know if you experience this. I can read a verse like this, I can understand the gospel in this beautiful way that God's seed, apart from my good works, is not going to produce life. It's only going to produce death. But sometimes I sit there and I do good works, and it's like I'm doing this weird metric system with God. Like, hey, God, I've done some good things. And then there's some other things that I know, and I'm like, I'm keeping these scales. And the more that I've thought about it, and as Lord willing, you're practicing a bunch of obedience and faithfulness these last few months as we've done this podcast, and you're you are growing in that. Sometimes we start to, you know, keep this tallying score. I believe it's because we're doing this weird penance towards God, and I know I do that. And um, I don't have there's no date on this, but uh I've heard comedians talk about this, and it's something I've thought about, and it and I really believe it's true. I think we have a penance society. Um, I don't know the last time you're at a, you know, if you're listening to this, you were at an airport, but I think anybody that's ever been to an airport, you have to ask yourself this there's always a store in the airport that always confuses me. Like I've never understood, and it's a jewelry store. Like you're like, who packed everything and forgot jewelry and needed to buy it? And so there's this understanding because apparently these make money, there's a reason that they're in this space and they sell, is because most men feel guilty for the time amount away they've spent from their family, but a lot of them are usually having affairs and have mistresses on the side and they feel guilty coming back. So what they do is they purchase their gifts at the airport in order to take it home. So there's this penance that they're gonna pay to their wife or to their family because there's usually sin or something wrong elsewhere in their life and they're balancing out the scales. I mean, objectively, we know that's wrong, but I do the exact same thing with God. We think to ourselves, it's like, look, I know you're saving me, and I know by no merit in which I will stand before him is by anything I've done. But it'll definitely help if I'm living a life, if whether that sin is lust, right? Like I think that's an easy one. It's like if a guy's like, you know, looking at something online, he shouldn't. It's just like, well, well, I read my Bible for an hour and you know, I only did something inappropriate for, you know, 15 minutes. It's like, well, it evens itself out. I think we know that's wrong. But what I think personally, especially in our Western rich culture, we live such comfortable, amazing, blessed lives that are really full of selfish ambition, that what we'll do is we'll try to offset it by giving to the poor, you know, serving at church, things that are good that you should do. So I'm not, I'm not downplaying those, but we do it to kind of allow ourselves freedom to do something else. As someone who talks to a lot of um entrepreneurs and businessmen, it's so funny. They cannot help themselves. Every single one will say this. When I ask, what's your goal? What's your ambition on this? Mind you, we know selfish ambition is evil in scripture. They always say this, my goal is to make a lot of money. So immediately, right? There's nothing in scripture that allows us that freedom, right? Not that you should you can't make money, but it's like, okay, that's an interesting goal. But they always follow this back end so that I can give to the kingdom. There's this penance that comes at the end of it. I want to do something for myself, but don't worry. I'm gonna do something good with it. I hope you make a lot of money and give to the kingdom. But God doesn't need your money, God always needed your heart. But I find myself doing that. It's like, Lord, I want to do all of this, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna self-indulge in whatever way, but don't worry, I'm gonna do something on the back end to do the penance. That's why I wanted to bring this up today. If you're listening to this and you think to yourself, I'm living either in sin or a life of comfort or selfish ambition, and you're trying to pay penance by doing some good works. That's not what God's heart is. And the reason is is and the reason is understanding that is that the gospel should be so transformative in your life that there's no penance for it. There is no way of paying it back. You've minimized it and you've actually uh degraded the beauty of it. I have

“I Know the Groom”

SPEAKER_00 16:40

shared this story, I'm pretty sure, on this podcast, and I will share this story until the day I die because it was so impactful. Is that I was at my buddy's wedding and I watched um, you know, his son who was getting married, and my buddy is a type personality, and he's on top of everything, kind of like a, you know, like that firstborn mentality. We've discussed this, and he's on top of everything. His son is not, his son is a lot of fun, right? You want to have the they make the world a lot more fun. My buddy makes the world go round. And and in his wedding, it was amazing because uh there were like 300 guests. It was a sit-down dinner, and uh it was like chicken, like you had to cut it. And and I'll never forget having 300 people at that wedding and getting through the line, grabbing my chicken, and they let him plan everything, do everything, and realizing there were no tables. There was one table in this entire wedding, 300 people plus one table, and it was sitting on the patio right next to where the first dance was going to take place. And I watched judge adjudged, obviously, some young men sit at this table, some some young ladies, but some young men sit at this table. They didn't offer it to other people, they did not get in a hurry to eat. They sat there first. Everybody's standing, just trying to cut their chicken, putting it on their lap, sitting on their chairs, doing the best they can. And I thought to myself, wow, well, selfishly, and they're sitting there. And um, I would have liked, but there should be only ladies at that table, and it should be like really quick and run through. They ate so slow that the first dance actually started right beside this table. They continued to eat, they didn't move the table. As mind you, all of us like kind of slowly branched out. And as we circled them, so you have hundreds of people, there's this table where people are eating their chicken, and I'm sitting there, and I know the groom and the dad really well. And I would have never done that, and I don't know who these people are. And so my buddy, the dad, comes over to my other buddy who's standing beside me, and he goes, He goes, Can you believe the audacity of these people? And I was like, I I genuinely can't. And he goes, I don't even know who they are, and he's like, and who do they think they are? And my buddy said something that will forever change me. And this is why this is a story I always tell my kids is these people sat there and they ate. It was audacious and it was the craziest thing. And I'm like, what the heck is happening? And my other buddy turned to him and goes, Well, all I know is that they're friends of the groom. And all of a sudden, in this moment, I realized how audacious it's gonna be to stand before my king. And one day I'm going to have a Matthew chapter seven. And he's gonna go, by what right and what merit do you have to stand here? And my response is not gonna be, I've done all this good, I've paid my penance, I stopped at the jewelry store on the way out, and I gave to the widows and the orphans. I get to say one thing, I know the groom. And not only do I have the ability, I have the right to stand here. And I'm inheriting the kingdom because of the goodness and the blood of Jesus Christ. And it's important as we talk about this, that while you're walking in obedience, please understand if there is sin in your life, and this is your application for the week, guys. If there's

Stop Paying Penance and Walk in Freedom

SPEAKER_00 19:53

sin in your life that you're trying to atone for by doing something good, you're wasting your time. You can't do it. It is only by the goodness and the blood of Jesus. So repent for that sin and realize that that is what forgives you. Quit paying penance to it, trying to even out the scales, get rid of that sin. If you're living a life of indulgence and comfort, if your life is filled, which is so easy, and I know this is prevalent of mine, with the ability to check out and watch TV or sports or use everything that you do, you know, your God is blessing with for yourself. Look, the giving back should be out of a place of I love Christ and want to walk like he does, not as penance for living a life of selfish ambition. Repent for that sin and then walk in that freedom. Then today express gratefulness that realize that you will get to stand before him. That Matthew chapter seven, I'm gonna have that same moment. I'm looking forward to that moment because I get to go, thank you, God, thank you, Jesus, for all that you've done and realize that I know, right? I know the groom. And then get into walk in freedom today. I have this quote here by JC Ryle. I'm a big fan of his, and I'm gonna add to it though, but I just want to paint it and then we'll kind of we'll we'll dialogue for a second. But he says this, I was dying in my sins, hopeless and helpless, and on the brink of eternal fire. It was Jesus Christ who delivered me with the hand of his grace and plucked me from everlasting burnings. It was Jesus Christ who placed a poor, sinful worm near the heart of his love. Stranger, that is the reason why I talk of Jesus Christ and make much of him. I am not ashamed of it. It is because I love him. My adding to this as a podcast where we walk in faithfulness, obedience, the reason we do it is because we love him, not because we're trying to pay penance for a life of sin or to make up for or atone for who we are. It is because of Jesus we walk in obedience. It is because of Jesus we will talk about him. And one day when we stand before the Father, we get to say, What right do you have to be here? It is because of Jesus. And I just thought that was something important to discuss as we walk out of this obedience. Man, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

What do you think is is the because I'm sure that there's some people that when you mention like the scales, right? Maybe it's not they're not doing it for the for under this tone of penance. Maybe they're just like keeping track

Greasy Grace, Legalism & Keeping Score

SPEAKER_01 22:11

of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For somebody who's in that camp who maybe not feel like they're they're feeling guilty, so they have to do that. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

So I have a I'm glad you asked that. So I have a theory on this. So there's there there's two camps, there's called Greasy Grace on. Legalism, and I've been thinking about it a lot. I don't believe those exist. I think you have two different types of people that are both greasy grace, where uh the person that's greasy grace is just honest, they're like, I have the I have the fire insurance, I'm gonna do whatever the heck I want. It's like, okay, great. Your legalist still does what he wants, but he feels guilty about it. So if you are living a guilty penance lifestyle, I would really evaluate what's going on. Why do you feel guilty? Why is that penance there? Because you think there's something in your life that you know is not right. I have yet to meet someone who is sold out for Jesus. Like, you know, those people that are just truly the salt of the earth, that are like, it's always because of Jesus, and they're never like, I'm doing these things. I was talking to Scott Volk um a while back, and he asked me a question. He goes, What do you think it means when scripture says, uh, don't let your left hand know what your right hand's doing? That's it, that's a tallying thing, right? It's like that's understanding what I've done. I said, I think you live a lifestyle of doing it so much that one, you can't keep track, but two, it's just who you are that you don't even think about it. Like me walking in obedience should not be such an anomaly and such a crazy thing that we're doing. It's like, I don't even keep a tally system. I don't go home and look at my wife and like, I told you I love you five times today. And you've told me three. That would be insane. And yet we will do that. And we'll go be like, well, I served at kids' church, or I gave to the poor twice this month. So I'm at four. And so now I'm gonna self-indulge a little. Like, if that is your if that's something you struggle with, there's something going on in your heart you know that's and that's why I wanted to bring this up. I can't diagnose that for you. You only you can. Why are you doing that? And the only person that knows is probably you, and you probably know exactly why if you think about it. I know why I do it because I'm like, I've I've been self-indulgent. You know, it it has been about me for like the last yeah, three weeks. So I'm I'm gonna give a little bit back to God. And it's that's problematic. Yikes.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Or maybe they're trying to manipulate God with a big decision that they have to make, or it's almost like you're trying to uh we always do that, play the slot machine of God.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

If you save me, then I'll do this. I mean, think about that. That's a Jonah mentality. Save me from this whale and I'll go to Nineveh, then I'll obey. So there is that too. I mean, it worked for him. Because God loved people of Nineveh, thank goodness in spite of him. In spite of him, right? But yeah, I I I would encourage you if you have a tallying system, evaluate what's going on. I know uh yeah, mine is birthed out of some serious unhealth. It just is.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Wow.

Breaking the Cycle Through Community

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Well, I hope you guys are encouraged today. Um I I would encourage you if you if this is something that you're dealing with or you feel guilty of, or uh there's stuff mentioned today that you definitely get that like warm feeling of conviction. Find somebody that you can talk through this with. This is gonna be done so much better in community. Um walk this out with somebody else. Or if you know somebody who's this avatar, you can send it to them, share it to them, share it with them.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Um I think pause on that for a second because I think that if you have somebody, one thing I would which we always are gonna advocate community, but if you have a buddy or someone you can call and talk to, even if it's your wife, one of the things that always helps me to to realign my focus is to simply talk about how good God is in a conversation. So if you struggle with that tallying, one of the things, if you wake up in the morning and you and I, you know, if I call a buddy and I'm like, listen to what how God, how God is good to me, it will start to remove that. Yeah. Does that make sense? Like I would, I would, if you're going to walk in community, if you want some freedom in this, like not thinking about a tallying system isn't just necessarily the answer. If you just wake up and be like, look what God's done in my life, that'll start to remove it. When you realize how unbalanced those scales are, yeah, you'll stop keeping track. Absolutely. You know what I mean? It's like you just will. That's good. Journal it. Journal it.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah, that's great. Keep track of it. Remember it. Good deal. Awesome. Well, guys, if you need to reach us, info at mondaymorningmen.com, and we'll see you next week.