SPEAKER_01 0:26

All right, welcome to the Monday Morning Men podcast. This podcast is about bridging the gap between your Sunday morning sermon and real life Monday morning. And we were here, it is very early. It is very early. Thomas is so busy that the only time that we can record is at six in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

But to be fair, both of us do have real jobs that is true. Not that someone speaking or podcast is not necessarily not a real job, but we do have day jobs.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, exactly. Disclaimer, I think I think this should be said. I'm not a theologian. I don't know if you would categorize yourself as are really any of us. I mean that's kind of a stretch, I think, for anybody at this point. Yeah. I mean, we're not pastors. No. We're just two dudes who have families who love Jesus and love his word. We do love Jesus. Yeah. And uh We are laymen. We really are. Layman. That's the that's the correct vernacular.

What Are Theology & Doctrine? (Simple Breakdown)

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I'm as layman as it gets. Same.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

So we're the disciples. Yeah. But uh if you've uh if if you've got topics that you want us to cover, you want to hear more about, you've got questions, you got feedback, you got prayer requests, whatever it is, you can send those to info at mondaymorningmen.com. And you actually sent me your notes this week.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I know, which is which is we're getting more into a rhythm. I'm getting more comfortable with this as opposed to just Bible study with dudes.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

So yeah. No, I like it. And I'm really excited about today's topic.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

So why don't you why don't you kick us off? Yeah. So I I thought it would be wise to go from hopefully, you know, we've read our Bible now for the past week. You've you've if you've incorporated it, or if you were already incorporating it, that you've you know attempted to delve deeper into some things, deeper understanding, a desire to actually not just check something off, but to learn something. And on that, we should have a desire to go deeper in every single way. So for today, I thought it would be great to talk about what theology and doctrine are and how they can be applied. Um, and before maybe you are like, okay, this is not for me, I'll I'll click to the next episode. This really is for everybody. When we we say theology and we say doctrine, it's super simple. Theology just comes from the word theos and logos, which just means the study of God.

This Isn’t Just for Pastors (It’s for You)

SPEAKER_00 2:51

So it's not like when we think theology, you don't have to be John Wesley or going to seminar. Jonathan Edwards or a four-year degree in your master's or of theology or anything like that. Not that there's anything wrong with extra education, but the idea is we should all be theologians to some degree. We should all be studying God. Yeah. And then doctrine is just to teach or to be taught. Um, I like one definition, it's teaching applied, which is ultimately this podcast heart. So hopefully you're learning something about God. As you learn about God, it allows you to see what he says about him, the things that he wants you to do, the things that honor him, and the things he doesn't want you to do. I'm like, the best way I can describe theology and doctrine is actually marriage. Like as you get to know your wife, you know the things to do, and you know the things you will never ever do again. Um, so so it's really important uh for us to understand this. And it's not like, oh my goodness, I'm not ready for this. I'm just trying to read my quick chapter a day and trying to that's fine. That's great. You should be seeing who God is saying about Himself in that. Yeah, that's good. Um, the one thing that I would just kind of point out, this is extremely important right now. Um, I don't know when you're listening to this, but it seems to be happening right now, but it's probably happening

Why Discernment Matters More Than Ever

SPEAKER_00 4:12

all the time. Is this idea of, you know, leaders falling, right? You have exposure, quote unquote exposure in the church or whatever. And seeing people having to take sides or people just kind of freaking out because they're not sure what they believe, they don't know how to defend, or maybe they're just angry or whatever. Discernment is a great word that I would even use for theology and doctrine. Like understanding discernment really kind of categorizes those two because when you understand who God is and what he says to do, it gives you a biblical lens to actually see the world around you and to see what things that he approves and disapproves of. Yeah. So this is not only important to the heart of God, but it's important right now. Exactly. And so if you're grounded in the Word of God, this kind of opens up a whole new world for you and allows you to just, it doesn't matter what's happening in your denomination because every denomination has something, right? Everybody's, you know, if you're of the more Orthodox and Lutheran and Methodist and Presbyterian, you're probably dealing with their very, you know, pro-homosexual, you know, marriage and and they're a lot of their pastors or priests or seem to be that way, and you're like, what's going on? If you're Baptist, which is how I grew up, it's celebrity churches and it's shallow, and it's like, is anybody growing? Or if you're in the whole Pentecostal charismatic movement, you're dealing with, you know, maybe some false prophets or even the prosperity gospel, whatever it is, this allows us to be grounded to actually have a proper view of what's going on, especially in our Christian world. Yeah. Um, but it's extremely important, and I love what JC Rile says. So before you like, okay, that's great, you know, how important is this? And we'll get into some scripture. JC Ryle was a fun, I mean, phenomenal writings, could not recommend his

The Danger of False Doctrine

SPEAKER_00 6:00

books enough. Uh, both for there's some great books for young men, that's a whole nother topic. But he has this quote: he says, we should no more tolerate false doctrine than we would tolerate sin. Like, how would you feel if I walked around and told lies about who you were? That's the that makes us more upset than anything, right? Nothing's worse than being told to lie about. Yeah, that's what false doctrine is. It's a lie about who God is. Nothing should make us more bothered than to be spreading misinformation or mistruth about who God is. And it, I can only imagine, right, what it does to the heart of God when we're spreading things that are just simply not true about him. So that's really important that we understand this. But we'll we'll be in 2 Timothy 3, um, 12 through 17. As we've always talked about, we want to give space for the reading of all scripture. We don't want this podcast super long, but at the same time, we want God to speak and use his words because we know that scripture is fully inspired and let him speak. So this is what he says. Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. Monday morning, man, we're desiring to follow God in every single aspect of our life, every single day. So we're desiring to live a godly life. While evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you have learned it, and how from a childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which were able to make you wise for the salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete equipped for every good work. Couple of things, just even noting there. First, I love that Timothy was taught from a young age. If you're listening

What Scripture Says About Doctrine (2 Timothy 3)

SPEAKER_00 7:53

to this and you're a dad, start teaching them young. But two, I love how the King James translates that when we say all scripture is breathed and it's profitable for teaching, it's translated doctrine, right? We're understanding who God is, how it applies. And so I've just a couple of thoughts uh regarding theology and doctrine, and we'll talk about that for a second. I'm gonna take a sip of water. Do you have any thoughts you want to give while I take a sip of water? No, I could I just pause for a second. Every time that every time no, no, no, this is not on my podcast. Whenever a pastor takes a sip of water, I've always just wanted someone to raise their hand and ask a question in like a church service. Like he just pauses and they're like, actually, I have some questions on what you just said. That would be amazing. Anyway, side note. What were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 8:38

They can't they can't do anything because they're stuck with taking a swig. That's right. What were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

No, it's it's good. Just keep going. All right. So, number one, learning theology and doctrine is a command for all of us. This is not for the pastor. This is not for your smart friend, this is for everybody, including us, the layman, right? Uh, they think that it's we we kind of elevate this. We elevate someone that says, I'm into theology and doctrine. We said this at the intro introduction of this podcast. You know, uh, like I said, my buddy always says, your theology should literally become your biography. It's who you are, it's what you've done, it's what you're creating, right? Um, so this idea that this is for someone else is completely wrong. First Timothy 4 6 says this keep a close watch on yourself and on teaching, right? Doctrine. Persist in this, for by doing so, you will save both yourself and your hearers. We

Why You Must Know What You Believe

SPEAKER_00 9:36

study who God is and what his word says to protect ourselves and to protect others. So I encourage you if you're in a season of where maybe you're raising alarms about some things that your friends are listening to or or engaging in. Obviously, we talked about unity, we've talked about humility. It has to be approached in all those ways. But there is a sense of where we should be so grounded in the word of God that we want to warn our friends and be like, hey, this is wrong. Not only because we care about them, but this is also the character of God that we want to defend. Like, hey, this is a misrepresentation of who he is. Yeah. And we want to see him rightly. Wayne Grudom says this, which by the way, he has a uh Wayne Grudum's systematic theology. You don't have to agree with everything. You don't have that's a big book to buy, but it's a great, you can always just reference it. Sometimes books you don't have to read in its entirety, but that he has a good one, and this one's phenomenal, this quote that he has. He says, This I'm convinced that there is an urgent need in the church today for much greater understanding of Christian doctrine or systematic theology. Not only pastors and teachers need to understand theology in greater depth, the whole church does as well. One day, by God's grace, we may have churches full of Christians who can discuss, apply, and live the doctrinal teachings of the Bible as readily as they can discuss the details of their own jobs or hobbies or the fortunes of their favorite sports team or television program. I hope that kicks somebody's butt. Because the reality is this is you'll say, Well, I'm not really, I'm not the smartest guy in the room. You don't have to be. But the reality is you probably can discuss something that is a priority to you. Whether it's if you're a like cars, you can explain your favorite car, you like sports. If you're listening to this and you're a business owner or you love your occupation, whatever it is, you probably can explain it because you've prioritized it. You've put the time and the effort in, as you should. This, why would you not do that for scripture and understanding who he is? You don't have to know everything, but you should at least want a desire to grow in that. And so that's ultimately what I'm sp you know saying, and kind of the goal of this initial episode is attempt to grow and understand who God is and what he says about himself

Truth Without Love Is Dangerous

SPEAKER_00 11:48

and how we should live our lives. Number two, uh, theology and doctrine helps us with discernment. Spoke about this in the beginning. This is really, really important because this is 2 Timothy 4, 3 and 4. It says, for the time is coming, and we we're seeing this, by the way. Uh probably all of, you know, it's probably throughout history, but definitely it seems prevalent right now. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions and will turn away from listening to the truth and wandering off into myths. The great thing about this scripture is it's not like I know like a lot of people want to say, um itching ears, that it's like uh, what's the pastor that gets up and just tells stories and jokes and there's no verse, and they and that is a portion of that scripture. But this is also the guy that sounds really good or that has some scriptural background. This is it's period. It's a mistruth. It doesn't, we want to, you know, pin a super shallow church, but maybe you have a church that has an appearance of deep roots, but the reality is it's not rooted in everything that God says about himself. So that that is a you need to understand this. It doesn't matter what your pastor or your preacher or whoever you're listening to, you need to be rooted in this. I don't care how good they sound, I don't care how many verses you think they're using. Do you have a full understanding? Because this is what John Calvin says. Zeal without doctrine is like a sword in the hand of a lunatic. And you'll see that. You can have guys that even start off good, and then all of a sudden they get a little wayward in their theology, and you're like, well, where are you going?

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah, yeah. It's almost as if like because they start off hot, it almost gets misinterpreted as uh they're anointed or God's with them. And so that gets overshadowed by or you know, the need to study doctrine

Practical Ways to Start Learning Doctrine

SPEAKER_01 13:42

and have sound doctrine gets overshadowed by that because they're, you know, God's anointed.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

It's we allow men that have any sort of influence, and that can be anything from their personal success to how many books they've written. Not that you shouldn't seek wise counsel or read what they have to say, but it should always be verified in scripture. Paul said, be like the Bereans. Here's an act, you know, the actual goat of all apostles, right? I mean, we use most of his scripture to kind of even base our church and our personal lives off of. And he's like, hey, don't take my word for it. Verify it in scripture. Yeah. This is how we should live our lives. And hopefully you're doing that, and hopefully this motivates you to do it. But as you do it, this is a real big, you know, passion of mine. We don't learn it to puff us up, we learn it to transform not only our lives, but hopefully to love and help transform others. First Timothy 6, two through four says this teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine that does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puff puffed up with conceit and understanding of nothing. Just so you understand, there's an idea of like the sound words of even the full doctrine. You may understand a knowledge or a truth about that scripture, but without love, it's actually deceit. It's actually not even the full theology and the doctrine that backs in scripture, even if you're right. Right. Like, like you have to encompass everything. You may have a right thought or a right theology about something, but not rooted in love, it doesn't matter, right? First Corinthians 13,2, we says this. If I have the gift of prophecy, or I'd even, I mean, you could throw really anything in there. I'm not going to edit scripture, but if I have the gift of whatever teaching, if I can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, I have, if I can understand everything about the scripture and have a faith that can move mountains, but I do not have love, we know what it says. I am nothing. Martin Lloyd Jones, also a phenomenal voice in this kind of corner. He says this. I spend half my time telling Christians to study doctrine, and the other half telling them that doctrine's not enough. So I'm praying that you're motivated, right? To delve deeper, to have sound theology, sound doctrine. It's for everybody. You're helping yourself, you're caring for your friends and your family, your kids and your wife, but it needs to always be rooted in love. It's always rooted in the grace of Jesus. You will always hear me say on this podcast, you know, the disposition of your heart is everything, right? It's got to be rooted in truth, but it but it needs to come from a place of love. So let's get into some applications for this week. Something you guys can apply and we can start practicing today, tomorrow. Um, and just understand that, you know, maybe even if you're weary, I just want to give you this one quote because I have I did write this down. Charles Spurgeon, this is he's you know one of my favorites. If you don't think it's important, listen what he says. When a man believes wrongly, he will soon act wrongly. So you applying this, vital, right? It will start to flow. We talked about this a ways back. You are a garden, you are growing something. Scripture says that's what the you are you're bearing fruit in some way. Good, bad. Who may a man who believes wrongly, he will soon act wrongly. A couple of applications you can do. Um, I actually run a little Bible study for some guys, and and I just challenged them recently to do this. Uh, read something that will help you understand a certain doctrine uh maybe that you've wrestled with in scripture. Uh, just as like an example, like uh I'll give, you know, maybe uh understanding the Trinity and your defense of it. That's not an easy one if your kids ask. This is giving you a great kind of test. You can read a book about it, you can then verify it with scripture. And you go, well, is that really that big of a deal? Well, I'm not gonna sit here and defend the Trinity for a second, but I'll just let you know, uh, yeah, I was watching a video the other day and I heard a, you know, prominent person say that there's a nine godhead of the Trinity, which is a heresy. And this is a person that people elevate, but you can sit there and you can, you may even sit there and go, wrong. And you may know it's wrong, but can you defend why it's wrong? And so that's my challenge to you. You should practice it. I I told my guys, so we keep each other accountable in this um Bible study. And so they have to practice it either with their family or their accountability partner, whoever's keeping them accountable, be like, hey, defend it. Let me hear you say, you know, why you defend it. I can appreciate when someone doesn't like something, maybe a different denomination. I've got friends as someone who's uh more, a little bit more charismatic now in this his actual doctrine and theology, uh, they'll be like, I don't really understand speaking in tongues. So that's fine. Not everybody has to agree on that. I'm not gonna talk about that. But the idea that can I defend that viewpoint? We can disagree on it, but can I defend it? This is a great way to open discussion, dialogue with one another, grow one another. This is stuff that if you're just practicing it, or maybe you don't speak in tongues, you think it's just weird. Oh, that's just unbiblical, or I grew up in a sensationist church. Cool. Can you explain it? You're just accepting that you believe it because you grew up that way, or your dad said so, you're a pastor. We're not doing that anymore. The got the goal for Monday morning men is that we're transformed by scripture. So apply that today. Find something that you

Final Challenge: Defend What You Believe

SPEAKER_00 19:09

can't explain. Find out, find a book, read about it, and then be able to defend it in scripture. I have two little fun tests uh that you can do. Um, I say fun. This is look, and I just want to encourage you, if you were in a local church, Lord willing, don't sit here. Your goal is not to consistently just test your pastor. You're not there trying to find what your pastor is doing wrong. That's not the goal. If that's your heart, our heart's already in the wrong place. But we should be rooted in the word of God that if we do hear something in error, we can either adjust or address. But you can find a preacher online or somebody you know you disagree with and biblically write down why you think you disagree with them. This is one of those ways you can defend your position. This forces you to study, it forces you to explain your thoughts. And then have someone, what we also have, I have one of the guys, and they ask you to defend a position. And as an example, you know, I have friends that are like, I'm against the tithe. Okay, great, defend it. Or, you know, I had a buddy the other day. He's like, I'm interested in Roman Catholicism. And I'm like, okay, I was ready to defend certain things that I disagree with. Or I take communion. How often should you take communion? Do you understand what the sacraments mean? Like, this is a whole thing that we should be able to explain some of these things. You just do them. Why would you not know the why? Why is it important to the heart of God? Who is he saying? Why should we apply it? A couple of books, and then we'll kind of close out here. A few books, recommendations, and there is just a wide vast. And and and not only these books, you have to agree with everything, but if it were me starting out, something super simple. I've actually gone through this with a family. It's the Second London Baptist Confession. Um, it's a super, super thin book, and uh, you know, it'll challenge you on just some of the basic uh principles in scripture. There's obviously Wayne Grutum's Systematic Theology I talked about. Uh I just bought a book in my son's reading. It's Jay Warner's Wallace uh Cold Case Christianity. So many books, though. And that's a little bit more of an easier read. Whatever you can do, do something. That's the goal. The goal is not to be a theologian, the next John Owen. The goal is just to be laymen that understand the scripture, which is right. I mean, this was all of the reformers' goal was that the layman would read the scriptures and be transformed. We want to do that. Yeah. And then defend the why behind what you believe. There are other books that I would recommend too that are not just necessarily theology books, Me or Christianity by C.S. Lewis. Um, if you're into some heavy reading, you can never go wrong with the Puritans. And here's some names for you to check out, and then we'll wrap it up. Uh Matthew Henry, Commentary on the Bible, some great insight. R.C. Sproul, obviously modern. John Calvin, you do not have to be a Calvinist. You can throw that out with you. There's no pressure to do that. But he does have understanding on other aspects of scripture. Charles Spurgeon, probably one of my favorites. John Owen, J.I. Packer, and the list could go on and on. But those are a couple things. Hopefully, you get started and then delve into deeper and be able to defend why you believe it, and then let the scriptures truly transform you and give you a biblical worldview. Nice. That's it. It's good stuff. Let's do it. I've got some I've got some thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Okay, you get you take it. Take it. I need some water. Um a lot of what you're talking about, you can you can distill it. Down to like wisdom, you know, discernment was because I think a lot of those go together. And there's I think it's wrong to just pray for wisdom without actually reading the scripture because there's so much wisdom that's in the Bible for every facet of life, right? So I think both of those need to go together. Um, and then also you mentioned it a little bit, but giving people permission to read and study theologians that are outside of their like denomination. Yeah. Like it's okay to read books by Puritan authors or Calvinist or Reformed guys or you know, Orthodox people because everybody may have a different perspective on the same passages, and you may be able to understand or identify uh some new revelation about like an aspect of scripture that you you may not have read before, you know? Yeah. Um, I know the Puritans are really well known for just taking one verse and just just beating it to death. And so I think there's a lot of lot you can get out of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

I read books I disagree with. Yeah. And it allows me to form my thought on why I disagree. And that's okay. That I'm still growing in that moment. Yeah. Right. I mean, there's I mean, there's wisdom in not reading everything, but there's a sense of like, yeah, you don't have to, it doesn't have to align with your denomination. It doesn't have to be perfect or agree with everything. We talked about unity before. Like that's not, we're not trying to all look the same, but there needs to be some stretching.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

So I love it. Um and then if if actually getting a theology book is intimidating to you, you can simply just get pick one of those guys, and a lot of them have public commentaries that are readily available online. Yes, they do. And if pair it up with your reading stuff, like if you're going through, you know, Matthew or Mark or John, whatever it is, and just say, hey, give me a commentary from uh sprawls or whoever it is that goes along with this as my because that that way it's relative to what you're reading, you know, in the scriptures on a week-to-week basis.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah, I I someone asked me actually in the Bible studies, like, is it okay if I Google some stuff? I'm like, yes. God's given tools. Like, you know, verify that that information is correct. But if you need to open it up, like I love to open up some different commentaries, and there's websites where you can see a bunch of different writers underneath it. What are they saying about this verse? Look, I mean, we live in the modern age. I'm not, you know, I wouldn't, you don't take AI's word for it. You should verify that these are things that are written, but there's nothing wrong with that. You should be able to use these tools to hopefully grow.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

I I have a question for you. Okay, you get one. Only one. I'm just fascinating. Um for the people who are intimidated by, you know, diving into scripture more through a theological lens. Can you give us an example of how not doing it and having bad theology could ruin your day or week or give you a little bit of a harder time?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Great question. Uh, two two quick things on that. First, just to again, because I always harp on the importance of it. I always talk, my dad always said, this is a love letter from God to us telling us who he is. If your wife or someone wrote you a letter telling, why would you, you would obviously read it, right? When your kid writes a little note, you always read it, right? Why would you not read something that is important to you? So first don't be overwhelmed. Don't view it in that light, would be my first suggestion. View this as someone that you have a relationship that's telling you about themselves. The second thing is, um, I'll give you an example. Uh, and this may step on some toes, and I'm not trying to open a can of worms. And this is something that this is, hey, if you're listening to this, maybe this challenges your belief. I don't believe that uh everybody's going to be healed right now, right? I believe the fulfillment of that promise can be also in heaven. Um, do I think God wants to heal? Sure. Do I think that he still does? Of course. When we first got married, my wife kind of came out of this uh certain assemblies of God word of faith movement where she believes everybody was to be healed and it really wrestled with her faith. Why had God, my wife deals with chronic um uh pain and still does. But why has God not healed her yet 18 years later? But seeing my wife correct some of her theology, I've got to watch my wife's faith grow and the testimony, even to my kids, yeah, and the and the life that has come forth in correct theology. So you're actually doing a disservice to yourself, right? Because you're seeing God in a wrong lens. The second thing you're doing is a disservice even for your testimony to others. So uh it it can be any sort of, I mean, I've had wrong theology too. God's gracious, right? We have an understanding. We grow in our relationship, we have a misrepresentation of who he is. We see through the glass darkly, but as that glass opens up, right, we start to see him rightly. Um, but yeah, it can be detrimental to your faith, it can be detrimental to the way you grow. I mean, Charles Spurgeon said he who believes wrongly will act wrongly eventually, unfortunately. Good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Um is there a littman's test for you to where are you being argumentative or are you defending truth in your search for understanding more on theology?

SPEAKER_00 27:36

That's a hard question because it's really uh it's an internal one. The only person that knows the intention of your heart is you. Are you trying to be right? Are you trying to just get people onto your side? How you approach a situation too, are you approaching it in love and kindness? I disagree, and here's why. And patience. That's the other thing. God's been patient with you in your theology. You should be patient with others. Doesn't mean you don't say the truth, but it's not like, hey, look what I've learned. Come on, right? God didn't do that to you. Yeah, why would you do that to someone else? Um, so so I check the spirit behind it, right? We've talked about humility and unity. Feel free to go back to those episodes. In fact, we actually I reversed them in my Bible study for the guys. I said, we're gonna talk about this. And immediately this came up, and I said, and we'll be talking about humility and unity so that we approach it rightly.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah, it's good stuff. Awesome. Awesome. You got anything else? That's it. Good deal. All right, thanks for listening, and uh, we'll see you next week.